Generation 6

Robert Finall - b 1774 in Abthorpe, Northants. Abthorpe - sometimes written as Abethorpe - is approx 3 miles SW of Towcester, so not far from Silverstone. Family involved in coach upholstery business.

Married in Abthorpe on 12th Jan 1794  Charlotte BARFORD. One source says she was born 1773 in Abthorpe, another 1774 in Foscote (a hamlet a mile N E of Abthorpe). Family in the leather trade.

They had three children - see 7-6.1 below

An uncorroborated Pedigree in the IGI gives 4 previous generations of the Barfords as follows (all locations mentioned are in Northants unless otherwise stated):

• Charlotte's parents (=Gen 5) were Valentine BARFORD (b1732 Shenley, d1777 Foscote) who had married on 24/04/1763 Elizabeth GIBBINS (b1757 Adstone (nr Towcester), d1822 Foscote)

• Valentine's parents (=Gen 4) were Thomas BARFORD (b1698 in Foscote, d 1769) who had married Dorothy CLARE (circa 1698-1769)

• Thomas's parents (=Gen 3) were John BARFORD (b30/10/1673 in Foscote, dc1760 in Slapton (1m NW of Abthorpe) who had married in 1695 in Towcester one Priscilla RAMPTON (bc1672 in Rickmansworth, Herts, dc 1735 Slapton.

• Thomas's parents (=Gen 2) were John BARFORD (c1636-1685, Northampton) who had married Mary PLACE (bc1647 in Slapton, d1718)

Generation 7

William Finall b24/01/1796 in Northants, d Mar qtr 1862 in Islington

On 13/02/1832 at St George's Hanover Sq W1, married Hannah MACKENZIE (1807-1871) - for her forebears, please see Tree 11

One source has said that, as a young man, William was in the service of the Earl of Musgrave, a governor of Jamaica. The obit in the NY Times for Constantine Henry Phipps, aka Lord Normanby, refers to him as 'Earl of Musgrave' and confirms that he was appointed Governor of Jamaica in 1831 (and Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland two years later) but most other sources quote him as having been 'Earl Mulgrave of Mulgrave' (later also Lord Normanby). As the Mulgrave's estate is just north of Whitby, near Lythe and Sandsend, this would explain how he came to meet and marry a local girl (Hannah Mackenzie). Their first child (William) was also baptised in Lythe and the later censuses quote him as having been born there too so it is a bit of a puzzle how William and Hannah came to be married in London, and at St George's no less.  

In 1841 the family are shown at Chapel Street, Islington with William's occupation as 'Jeweller Journeyman' while in 1851 his occupation is still the same but they have moved to 18, Polliney (?) Terrace, Islington. After William's death, Hannah and (unmarried) son William moved to 20 Roman Road, Islington.

For details of their 3 children, please see 8-7.1 below

John Finall born Northants 1798, died 1801

Robert Finall born 1795 in Firscote, Northants, died 25/12/1857 at 24 Marshall St Westminster.(IGI) A descendent, Eva Davies, describes him as having been a coach trimmer.  

Married Elizabeth POTTER,  also b 1795, died 1843 in Berkamstead, Herts. She was the daughter of John POTTER, a leather trader, and his wife Mary.

In the 1851 census, Robert is shown as Robert 'Finale', a 55 year old Coach Trimmer, born in 'Foscott, Northants' living at 3, Seward St, St Barnabus, Finsbury, London together with 3 of his younger children (Ann, Robert & John) and a 'wife' Mary Ann, a 45yr old book-binder from Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk. So far, details of a re-marriage between Elizabeth's death in 1843 and the census time in Spring 1851 has proved elusive but there is a plausible marriage in Sep qtr in St Lukes. 

In 1861 Mary Ann is shown as "Mary Ann Funnel" a widowed 56 yr old Bootmaker born in Bury St Edmunds living on her own at 7 Hollow Street, Westminster but indexed as 'son' of the family head (!). Sadly in 1871 she is shown as a 70yr old inmate of Westminster Union Workhouse in the Golden Square district  and it seems she died some four years later, in Sep qtr 1975, in Westminster at the quoted age of 73. The wide variety of quoted ages is not abnormal. 

One IGI source attributes all manner of children to Robert & Elizabeth nee Potter, but para 8-7.3 below lists the seven most likely candidates.

Generation 8

William Finall baptised in Lythe (N of Whitby) on 29/06/1832, died Jun qtr 1888 in St Olave, London. He does not appear ever to have married.

In 1851 he is, at age 18, still living at home with his parents but is listed as an 'Architects Clerk'. After his father's death in 1862, he moved with his mother to Roman Road , Barnesbury where he is listed in 1871 as just a 'Clerk', but in 1881, almost ten years after his mother's death, he is an 'Architect' lodging at 2, Turle Road, Islington in the company of the Webb family, over a dozen young ladies as school boarders and a deaf housekeeper. He is shown as being born at "Sandsend, Whitty". No comment.

It will be noted (from Tree 1 notes) that his sister Eliza and her husband Thomas John Beckwith also lived in Roman Road in the 1860's and had connections with St Olave parish in the 1880's  

At home with parents in 1841 and 1851 censuses, she cannot be found in either 1861 or 1881 but she does appear as a Servant / Housekeeper at 404 Camden Road, Islington so perhaps, if she was also in service in 1861 & 81, her employers spelt her name wrongly. From brother-in-law Thomas John Beckwith's diary for 1865, it does seem that she was living with them at that time.   

Married in St Pancras on 5th Dec 1858 Thomas John BECKWITH

For more details of her life, please see her husband, Thomas John Beckwith ; for a photo of her please see the Beckwith Index Page and for details of her nine children, please see Tree 2

Married in June qtr 1842 in Blaby, central Leicestershire, Alice CARTWRIGHT (1819-Mar qtr 1881 in Pancras)

In the 1861 census, they are shown as both aged 40 and living in London together with their 6 children: Elizabeth (18 - b Blaby), William (16 - b Blaby), Alice (12, b Northants), Fanny (10, b Leics), Martha (6, b Congleton, Cheshire) and Samuel (9mo, b London) .... so they had obviously moved about rather frequently in the preceding 20 years. Also with them is William's younger brother Robert (shown as aged 18 rather than 28) and he's a coach painter just like both of the Williams.

Elizabeth had the middle name Barford (according to descendent Eva Davies) and married George EAMES (1838-1878) on 25/05/1863 in Pancras. They had two children, Wm George (b1866) and Henry (b1876, d1915 in Tufnell Pk). In 1881, some 3 years after her husband's death, she is listed as a Charwoman & Head of the household at 19 Grove St, Pancras. 

Coincidence ? A William FINALL married a Fanny EAMES in Bovingdon, Herts on 5th Sep 1830

She married in Marylebone in Mar 1843 and is believed to have died in 1869

She appears to have married in Amersham (Bucks) in Sep qtr 1852.

Shown as living at home in 1851. Possibly married in Strand, Sep 1854 and believed to have died 05/03/1884

It seems that he then moved north to the family's original Northampton home as he married Emma CARVELL (bc1837 in Everdon, N'hants) there in Mar qtr 1865 and their first child, Emma, was also born there in Mar qtr 1866. Their 2nd, Robert, was born in Hammersmith two years later and in 1881, 3 years after Robert snr's death, the family is listed with the family of Auguste Herschell at 4 Clifton Villas, Clifton Rd, Hammersmith, with Emma (44) as 'Charwoman', Emma (15) as 'Domestic Servant' and Robert (13) as errand boy. 

A move back to Northamton again then seems to have been made as Emma jnr (shown as Emma Ann P Finall) married a James BRADSHAW there in Mar qtr 1890. Emma (snr) went to live with the Bradshaws for a time as she's listed in 1901 at Hoddesden, Herts with James Bradshaw (34), Emma (35) and their 3 daughters, Florence, May and Violet. Another return to Northampton seems to have been made by Emma snr as she died there in Dec 1914 at the age of 76.

Noted above as living at home in 1851. In 1861 he is listed in Crown Court, Westminster, age 24 from Leighton Buzzard and a 'Coach Trimmer' with wife Emma (age 20, b Middlesex) and 8 month old son John. The birth of a John Robert Finall is recorded for Sep qtr 1860 in St James, Westminster (= Golden Sq area) with the IGI recording a baptism at St Thomas, Regent St (handy for Hamleys) on 2nd Nov 1861 but the IGI's birth date in this entry of 17/07/1859 doesn't tie up with the census. 

In 1871 a John Finall is listed in the census as 'Jno' Finall, age 35 and a 'Coach Trimmer' from Leighton Buzzard, living at 4 Phillips Buildings, Pancras with a wife called Kate (29, b Paddington) and son 'Jno' (12) born St Pancras. Similarly in 1881 he is at 71 Kenton Street, Bloomsbury, working as a 'Coach Trimmer', (still) married to Kate  (born in Paddington 1843) and now with 3 children all born in 'Middlesex': John (b1861), Robert (b1874) and Anne (b1878). Ten years later, not too much had changed - they are at 54 Hemmingford Road, Barnsbury, he a 56yr old Coach Trimmer, Kate a 48yr old housewife, Robert (17) a china packer and 'Annie' (12) a scholar but there's no sign of John jnr.

Ten years on again, 1901 finds almost no change other than address and yet another dubious age for John snr - they are at 58 Arundel Sq, Lower Holloway, London, he a 68 year old coach trimmer, Kate a 58 yr old housewife, Robert (26) a bricklayer and Anne (22), a school teacher and there's still  no sign of John jnr. By 1911 though Anne had married a Joseph PHILLPOT and moved to Edmonton, Robert seems to have gone off to support Watford and their parents have changed their allegiance too ....  from Arsenal to West Ham (smart people) with Kate now listed as 'Catherine' .... and still no sign of John jnr. The final dubious age for John snr comes at death when it is quoted as 86 (in 1913) but this could be a transcription error for 80.  

The discrepancies in the above in age and birthplace beg more questions than can be answered but at least the chances are somewhat remote of there having been two John Finnals - one married to an Emma and the other a Kate/Catherine - but both Johns from Leighton Buzzard, both born around the same time, both operating in the same area of London as Coach Painters, and both with sons John born within a year of one another. Was Emma one and the same as Kate ? No marriage record has yet been found for John between 1850 and 1860 so the census data is all that's currently available.Their ages and birthplaces were about the same but there is a death record for an Emma in London in 1865 and a marriage of a John to a Catherine MULKERN in Chelsea in 1866. Does this also explain the 13 year gap between 1st & 2nd child?

End Note - Arundel Sq is close to Highbury Corner (High & I station) so is literally within yards of where Surls & Beckwiths resided - and in the same era.    

Strays

On 2nd October 1870 a Henry Finall married a Mary Ann TARRANT in Pancras Old Church - is this the same Henry (with Mary Ann being mis-heard as Marion by the census enumerators or vice versa at the church) ? 

More importantly, the profession of  'Coach Painter' and birth in Leicestershire does seem a tad familiar .... but how was he related ? 

Coincidentally, just two weeks earlier in the very same church, a Henry Hugh FINALL was baptised (having been born on 30/08/1870). No father's name is recorded in the IGI birth or baptism entries but the mother's name in both is Alice Finall. To quote an old song title "Who's Alice?" Most likely would seem to be Alice b1849, daughter of William Seabrook Finall (8.11). Whatever, young Henry died shortly afterwards (Dec qtr 1870) and there's a marriage entry for an Alice Finall, again in the very same church, on 19th May 1872 when she married one Hugh MORRIS.